Entry: Marriage Under Assault Wednesday, February 25, 2004



Now that President Bush has been forced by recent events to make a statement in favor of an amendment to the Constitution to define marriage, you can see the Liberal spin already beginning.  Nearly every newspaper, magazine and news program is renaming what Bush has asked for to a "ban on gay marriage".  They treat gay "marriage" as though it were something already in existence that the man wants to take away, like the right to gun ownership or the free exercise of religion (both of which do exist, and neither of which seem to be defended by the media from the ongoing Liberal assault).  It's a definition of marriage the President seeks -- a definition that has never been needed before now.  Until the last few years, a "gay marriage" was one in which husband and wife were wildly happy.

Why should only the traditional form of marriage be officially recognised as valid?  It's a question I've addressed before, in my article "Rejecting Our Biological and Cultural Heritage" published at Useless-Knowledge.com last summer, but I'll reorganise and reiterate some of my arguments here. 

Every successful human society, stretching all the way back to prehistory, has been based on marriage and genetic ties, expressed as family relationships.  It's the foundation of human society and civilisation.  Marriage has always been the way for society to recognise and formalise those family ties and the continuity of the genetic relationships.  Even childless couples, especially those who adopt, still maintain the basic form and framework of the most fundamental of relationships to pass on to the next generation by example.  The idea that we should simply... throw away tens of thousands of years of a proven, successful base for human interaction because some gay people and advocates -- by no means all! -- demand that society's bedrock be shifted to fit their world view better is ridiculous.  It would have the same long-term effect on society that removing one's backbone would have on a human being.  The person might look more or less the same on the outside, for while... until he tries to stand.

And what's their reasoning behind wanting to change the ancient, well-understood definition of marriage in this specific way, these advocates of gay "marriage"?  What justification do they offer for doing so that can't be applied to other forms of marriage, and why not?  Why only two people?  Why only adults?  Why only those unrelated by blood?  What gives them the right to force society to move the line to include one type of non-traditional relationship, but not others?  It's incredibly arrogant, not to mention hypocritical.

The most common attack by proponents of gay "marriage" is, "How will two gay people getting married impact Bobby and Susie's recent marriage"?  That's an incredibly short-sighted and narrowly-focused question.  The truth is, it probably won't -- they're already married.  It will, however, have an impact on any future relationships their children will have.  Their grandchildren may think of "marriage" the way we currently think of friendships, replacing a formerly defining characteristic of one's life with something far more ephemeral and tenuous (the answer to high divorce rates is not to trivialise marriage further).  Their great-grandchildren -- if such archaic designations are still used by then -- may not even recognise the word "marriage" except as something in history books.  Without marriage, there is no family relationship anymore -- it becomes unnecessary.  And of course, the reduction of traditional values and family relationships is precisely what Liberals generally seem to want.  For decades, they've fought to replace Mom's apple pie with the Mommy State.

As Bob Dole said in 1996, in response to Hillary Clinton's book advocating intrusive governmental meddling in child-rearing, it doesn't take a village to raise a child.  It takes a family.  And marriage, the cornerstone of the family, is currently under assault.  We have made a Constitutional amendment setting forth our rights to free speech and free assembly, which were once under assault.  We have made amendments defining everyone's right to vote, when such were needed.  If we need to protect the institution of marriage from assault with a Constitutional amendment defining it too, then so be it.

   37 comments

xaos
February 25, 2004   01:27 PM PST
 
FACT: 50% of these "sacred institutions" end in divorce. the sacred is now the profane.

FACT: years ago the ruling majority thought it ridiculous that blacks should have rights equal to that of whites.

FACT: then women were laughed at for wanting to vote.

FACT: this too shall pass. and with it, the knee-jerk reactionaries and their tired prejudices.

food for thought, in case you get bored eating your own words.
JM
February 25, 2004   01:39 PM PST
 
Hey, way to avoid answering the questions! Unfortunately, they remain. Your references to civil rights have nothing to do with marriage, your references to divorce rates don't excuse trivialising marriage even further, and your insults are, of course, ridiculous.
xaos
February 25, 2004   01:56 PM PST
 
i expected that much from you.
JM
February 25, 2004   01:58 PM PST
 
Still didn't answer the questions, I see...
xaos
February 25, 2004   02:10 PM PST
 
the problem is...i don't see any obvious questions posed to the skeptical reader.

what harm is it doing to allow gay marriage? the slippery slope fallacy is off limits. in fact, all fallacies are off limits. leave out religion too, since it's fallacious. without resorting to fallacy, answer that question.

what harm does it do to allow two people who love one another to marry?

there is genetic evidence supporting homosexuality and homosexuality has been identified in other species, not as an anomaly, but as a practice rooted in genetic coding.

if homosexuality is proven to be a matter of genetics, would you move to deny the nature of man? would you move to deny man the joy of love and marriage for the sake of keeping some shaky metaphysical or scientifically suspect prejudice in place?

tell me what about allowing gay marriage is fundamentally damaging to the "institution" of marriage? more so than the hundreds of thousands of men cheating on their wives, women cheating on their husbands as i write? those filing for divorce. how is the union of one man and one woman superior to the marriage of two people of the same sex? riddle me that.
JM
February 25, 2004   02:17 PM PST
 
>i don't see any obvious questions

4th paragraph

>the slippery slope fallacy is off limits.

You must first prove that it's a fallacy.

>there is genetic evidence
>supporting homosexuality

Show me where I said anything about homosexuality.

>tell me what about allowing gay
>marriage is fundamentally
>damaging to the "institution" of
>marriage?

Did you even bother to read the entry? Doesn't seem so.
xaos
February 25, 2004   02:18 PM PST
 
i admit my own weakness in the face of dissent.

i should heed the warning, nay the wisdom of my professor:

"Never argue with stupid or evil people."~John Brantingham

truth.
JM
February 25, 2004   02:20 PM PST
 
That's a not-so-clever way to say "I can't answer your questions except with ad hominem attacks". Have a nice day.
Questioneer
February 25, 2004   02:36 PM PST
 
And, of course, never argue with people who are right. You forgot that one.

"there is genetic evidence supporting homosexuality and homosexuality has been identified in other species, not as an anomaly, but as a practice rooted in genetic coding."

Genetic, huh? How can something be passed down through genetics through people who don't reproduce? Homosexuality exists in NO other species that mates for life, only "promiscuous" species' that spread the seed to every animal of the same species they come in contact with.

"tell me what about allowing gay marriage is fundamentally damaging to the "institution" of marriage? more so than the hundreds of thousands of men cheating on their wives, women cheating on their husbands as i write? those filing for divorce."

Terrible arguement. You don't judge the institution of marriage by those who act irresponsibly towards it. That's like saying money is bad because some people spend it poorly.

"how is the union of one man and one woman superior to the marriage of two people of the same sex? riddle me that."

Superior? It's not a case of superiority so there is no answer to that question. It's like asking how is right superior to wrong.
JM
February 25, 2004   02:49 PM PST
 
When male rats are crowded together for too long, they will resort to homosexual behavior to establish dominance. There are certain species of primates who use faux sexual acts to do the same thing among males. So, by this "logic", we should abandon 10,000 years of civilisation and scratch out a living in the trees? You first, Xaos.
Rob Lawson
February 25, 2004   04:15 PM PST
 
I'm against gay marriage, however, I wouldn't mind civil unions. I'm not the one who is going to judge these people, the Allmighty is.

As always, Joe, nice article. Might want to check this out, too:

"In 1996, President Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act, which prohibits federal recognition of gay marriage and doesn’t require one state to recognize a gay marriage license from another state. "

http://www.newstimes.com/cgi-bin/dbs.cgi?db=news&view_records=1&id=59902
JM
February 25, 2004   04:26 PM PST
 
Thanks, Rob! Unfortunately, all the DOMA does is prevent the "good faith" clause of the Constitution from operating, and that will be tossed out by the Supreme Court in a heartbeat. It'll be ignored the same way Proposition 22 is being ignored by Mayor Newsom, by claiming that it's "negated" by the "higher law" of the CA Constitution. In this case, the US Supreme Court will undoubtedly rule that the "good faith" clause "negates" the DOMA.
Rob Lawson
February 25, 2004   05:14 PM PST
 
"Unfortunately, all the DOMA does is prevent the "good faith" clause of the Constitution from operating, and that will be tossed out by the Supreme Court in a heartbeat."

I'm wondering, though, if Clinton was questioned as "Dividing Americans" like the media elites are doing to Bush...

Heh.

I know I went a bit off topic, but I thought the link was pretty interesting.
JM
February 25, 2004   07:15 PM PST
 
Not off-topic at all! The DOMA has exactly the same position relevant to the US Constitution as Proposition 22 has to the CA constitution. Everyone THOUGHT Prop 22 would provide the necessary protection... maybe we ought to thank Newsom for showing us how useless the DOMA really is.
StarkTruth
February 25, 2004   07:41 PM PST
 
As you have on my site, I now on yours. I respectfully disagree with the need for a Constitutional Amendment. The Constitution should at all times be held as the supreme rule of the land. With this in mind, we should only resort to Amendments as an absolute last resort. The last amendment that was outside of guaranteeing the rights of individuals was quickly repealed. If you wanted guarantee the right to marriage to all people over the age of 18, then I may be on board with you. The Constitution should at no time have any exclusionary verbiage. It scares me to think that we would jump right to amending the constitution before exhausting all other avenues.
StarkTruth
February 25, 2004   07:43 PM PST
 
I should also note that I appose Gay Marriage.
StarkTruth
February 25, 2004   07:50 PM PST
 
And for all you grammar and spelling Nazi's out there (you know who you are you attack me at every blog I comment on) I realize it is oppose and not appose
JM
February 25, 2004   07:53 PM PST
 
What avenues have not been tried, Jeff? In California, they threw the question open to a direct vote in Prop 22, and the people voted NO GAY "MARRIAGE". And here it is anyway, forced upon them by a radical activist Mayor. It's absolutely clear to anyone that the DOMA will be just as much protection... possibly less. What else is left before we go to an amendment? That's a serious question, by the way... if you can think of something else, I'd like to know.
StarkTruth
February 25, 2004   08:13 PM PST
 
Well, first off, the State of California is responsible for maintaining order within its borders and ensuring adherence to the laws that are imposed or enacted. Their failure to follow through with their charged tasks only goes to show that the State of California is in much worse shape than thought.

However, I do not believe that it is the Federal Government’s responsibility to ensure that California abides by the laws that it legislates. As a wise man stated “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. “ Oh wait, that was the tenth amendment. Let the states and the people first try and resolve this difference. After all, there is a substantially large majority that favors legislation against gay marriage. One of the biggest issues we have in this country is the lack of faith in our fellow citizens. I tend to believe that what is right will eventually prevail. Such was the case with civil rights, and will be the case with affirmative action.
JM
February 25, 2004   08:19 PM PST
 
And when all those people getting "married" in California go HOME, who do you think they;re going to scream to when their home states refuse to honor their fake licenses as per the "full faith and credit" clause in the Constitution? The DOMA will fail in court.
StarkTruth
February 25, 2004   08:46 PM PST
 
Well, I don't believe at this point any "legal" gay marriages have taken place. So, I don't believe we need to address this yet. What happens if said marriages do? Well then I guess we need to look at an amendment or other recourse. But I don't think we are at that state yet. All I am asking is that we walk softly when it comes to Constitutional Amendments. Especially if they “define” rights for a group of people.

I still contend that marriage is a religious union that has been hijacked by the government.
JM
February 25, 2004   09:00 PM PST
 
>But I don't think we are at that
>state yet.

Ahh, but President Bush is -- dare I say it? -- a proactive kind of guy. :) It's easier to prevent something than rescind it later. Also, remember that the amendment process will take at least a couple of years. If all states enact a definition of marriage law before that, it'll become unneccesary and may die in committee.
StarkTruth
February 25, 2004   09:10 PM PST
 
And I understand that. But if "creating an amendment" becomes as trivial as "imposing new tax laws" we are all in trouble. What precedent have the Dems not either utilized in elections or pushed to the boundaries. Before you know it, our government will be so tied up in Amendment propositions that even less important work will get done than now. I for one am not willing to take that chance just yet.
JM
February 25, 2004   09:25 PM PST
 
I don't think that this will lead to a quagmire of Constitutional amendments being proposed. I don't think the American people will stand for it... there isn't precisely a landslide of support for THIS! But as you said earlier, "One of the biggest issues we have in this country is the lack of faith in our fellow citizens." So let's hope it doesn't need to be done, but start the process in case it does, and have a little faith.
StarkTruth
February 25, 2004   09:31 PM PST
 
I sure hope not. For that would make a mockery of the Constitution.
American
February 26, 2004   12:47 AM PST
 
You wrote a piece a few days ago lambasting judges for "rewriting the law" and in general legislating from the bench. What leads you to believe that the federal courts will give any more deference to a new constitutional amendment than they now give to the constitution and existing amendments thereto? The First Amendment states quite clearly that congress can make no laws abridging the freedom of speach. Sounds prety clear to me. Yet the Supreme Court has ruled McCain-Feingold constitutional. And need we even mention the Second and Fourth Amendments.

You were right the first time. The law is what the court says it is. And as I pointed out in an earlier comment, there is no longer any such thing as statutory or constitutional law.
JM
February 26, 2004   05:34 AM PST
 
Then what's your solution, Amerrican? And don't say "there isn't one".
American
February 26, 2004   06:06 AM PST
 
The only tool that I know to be available is Congress's power to limit the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. I doubt that this would be invoked, nor am I at all sure that it would be effective in this case.

Like it or not, I don't see any answer that would avoid a constitutional crisis and a confrontation between two branches of the government. The Left knew what they were doing when they worked for the last several decades to control the courts. Unless you can come up with a workable way to force the courts to follow the law rather than to write it, I think the game is over.
JM
February 26, 2004   06:19 AM PST
 
So, would you support an amendment creating a power of Legislative Review with the power to negate Supreme Court decisions with a supermajority vote? What the courts are using to legislate from the bench is the power of Judicial Review, created in 1803 (Marbury v. Madison).
Mark from Colorado
February 26, 2004   08:31 AM PST
 
Homosexuality might be genetically influenced. But, that doesn't necessarily mean people shouldn't be allowed to be morally opposed to homosexuality. After all, there might be genes that give some people a propensity for violence, drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness. But, people are correct to notice such behavior and react according to their values.

The reason why marriage is an institution of one man and one woman is because men and women are different. Men are more aggressive. Women are more nuturing. Thus, a child who is raised by a Mom and Dad is going to have a healthier childhood than a child who is raised by 4 Dads.

And don't think that if gay marriage becomes the law of the land that people who support polygamy won't be using the same "don't discriminate" arguments. And if government can't define marriage based on commonly shared values, why would it be wrong for a 20 year old man to marry his Dad?
Mike H.
February 26, 2004   02:01 PM PST
 
Impeachment is a tool for restoring executives, jurisprudential activists, and other things of a governmental nature back to normal.
American
February 26, 2004   03:41 PM PST
 
Congress already has the power to limit the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. U.S. Constitution, Article III, Section 2. I don't know whether that applies to other federal courts as well.
StarkTruth
February 26, 2004   07:48 PM PST
 
I have spent many moons thinking about this since last night.

And I have come to the conclusion. I am for polygamy. On one condition. Every one of my wives is 18 years old. Once they turn 19 or have my child, off with their heads. Seriously, why can't I just get rid of them? I think they have served their purpose by giving me a child and being a hottie with a tight body. If any of you disagree you are just not being tolerant of my lifestyle choice.
American
February 27, 2004   12:06 PM PST
 
Well, "Stark Truth", there are better ways. Just become a Muslim. Forget 18-year-old wives, those 12- and 13-year olds are more easily trainable. Of course you can have only 4 wives at a time, but getting rid of the used ones is simplicity itself. You need only say "I divorce you" three times. Islam is more compassionate than you, however. You don't just kill your ex-wives; you throw them into the street, where they can live by begging or postitution.
Jeff Stark
February 27, 2004   07:05 PM PST
 
American, now this is information I was not privy to. Thanks bud.
Adam Crocker
March 3, 2004   09:06 PM PST
 
Apparently the author believes that by allowing same-sex marriages this will destroy marriage resulting in certain disasterous consequences. He does not state what they are but feels something along these lines will happen because marriage is based on family ties and genetic continuity. Fine, save for the fact that the argument's own logic collaspes when he gets into adoption, because that eliminates the genetic component. So it is now based on maintaining "the basic form and framework of the most fundamental of relationships to pass on to the next generation by example." (And what about couples that choose not to have children?) This means that the true basis for marriage, according to the logic of the argument, is to strengthen and formalize family ties...which is exactly what gays want. Really it ends up as an argument for gay marriage as a way of strengthening society since it invites more people to recognize and formalize family ties. It would still maintain "the basic form and framework of the most fundamental of relationships to pass on to the next generation by example."
JM
March 3, 2004   09:53 PM PST
 
Wow, there were so many twists and turns in that last post I can set it up at Disneyworld and call it an "E-ticket ride". Obviously, you didn't bother to read the article, or you would have found the answers to just about all your "points" already there. Apparently, you completely missed the point: marriage is society's vehicle for continuity of family groups, which all human societies are based on. Gay "marriage" has nothing to do with genetic continuity whatsoever. As for what will happen to America if gay "marriage" becomes somehow legal... why, we'll become just like Scandanavia.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/660zypwj.asp

And one more thing... the "basic form and framework" of marriage is one man and one woman. Anything else is NOT marriage, no matter how many people want to pretend it is.

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