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So President Bush puts the Army's top expert on counter-insurgency in charge of our forces in Iraq, and begins sending him additional troops to help pacify Baghdad. The politically-correct "rules of engagement" that have prevented the troops from doing their jobs effectively are lightened. Al-Qaeda in Iraq's leader is reportedly wounded, and his deputy killed. Moqtada al-Sadr suddenly remembers a pressing engagement in Iran, hikes up his robes and runs for the border. |
| Sudsy February 21, 2007 03:17 AM PST "Al-Qaeda releases tapes gleefully predicting America's imminent withdrawal." f you read the link you provided, you'd see he didn't say that in any way. He said that US troops would be slaughtered and even asked "Why send only 20,000? Send them all, muhahaha!!" "a Democrat-controlled Congress pulled funding in order to throw the Vietnam War even as we were winning " That link doesn't prove your contention. In fact, it even quotes the guy who's written what's considered the definitive history on it, who says of people like you: "They're clutching at some sort of way to justify hanging on in Iraq... The war in Vietnam, in my estimation, was unwinnable for the simple, basic reason that we were up against an enemy that was prepared to take on unlimited losses. They would have gone on fighting endlessly." Gen. Abizaid is mentioned at the end saying that he doesn't think the Surge is the fix. "to prevent the entire country from being taken over by thugs and killers from Iran and al-Qaeda" The overwhelming majority of the resistance in Iraq is home-grown. And they will never be able to take over, only keep creating minor havoc. "Iran-fomented unrest in Baghdad" Ooh, another 2004 article from the WashTimes! Quoting MEMRI and Mossad, no less, so it must be true cuz they're not biased! "We'll be lucky if the last American troops to leave Iraq don't do so hungry and ragged, throwing rocks at the enemy as they go." Dems aren't gonna let that happen. They've got a presidential campaign to run, for god's sake. The troops will always be as safe as, if not safer, than they are today. | ||
| JM February 21, 2007 06:13 AM PST >He said that US troops would be >slaughtered and even asked "Why >send only 20,000? Send them all, >muhahaha!!" Look up the word "sarcasm." >That link doesn't prove your >contention. It clearly shows the difference between those who fight and understand warfare, and the opinions of "a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist." >Gen. Abizaid is mentioned at the >end saying that he doesn't think >the Surge is the fix. Abizaid is not a counter-insurgency expert. Of course, all those military types are alike to you, right? >The overwhelming majority of the >resistance in Iraq is home-grown. Funded and supplied by whom? >another 2004 article from the >WashTimes! Your spirited defense of Moqtada al-Sadr is remarkable. >Dems aren't gonna let that >happen. That is precisely what they want to see happen. | ||
| Sudsy February 22, 2007 05:43 AM PST "Look up the word 'sarcasm.'" OK: "A form of irony in which apparent praise conceals another, scornful meaning." Hmm, doesn't apply, because there was no "apparent praise" to it. And it certainly wasn't funny in any way. I think it would be far simpler to say that you just willfully miscontrued what his said in order to make it fit your larger thesis. "It clearly shows the difference between those who fight and understand warfare, and the opinions of 'a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist.'" Oh, have you read his book? Didn't think so. And do you understand warfare better than Abizaid? Uh huh. "Funded and supplied by whom?" I dunno, but "thugs and killers from Iran and al-Qaeda" have no chance of "taking over" the entire country, as you claimed. Major General Joseph Taluto said "99.9 per cent" of those captured fighting the US were Iraqis. http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/05/06/09/168406.html General George Casey said that of 1000 men aged 15-55 captured in Fallujah, only 15 were foreign fighters. http://web.archive.org/web/20050308012832/http://www.despardes.com/articles/sunnishia-1123.asp "Your spirited defense of Moqtada al-Sadr is remarkable." He's hardly our main enemy. The big problem with him and his followers is that they kill Sunnis out of revenge while protecting fellow Shia, which keeps the cycle of sectarian violence going, this prolonging the war and making Bush look bad. Your trying to pin him as a pawn of the gov't of Iran is simple-minded and unsupported. There are conflicting reports about where he is is hiding. Some say Iran, some say down with the Marsh Arabs, or Najaf, or Kufa. Those who are saying he's in Iran have reason to take him down a peg. He got much mileage from mocking (moqing?) those same people when they fled Saddam for Iran back in the day. The few times he's known to have visited Iran before, he spent his time in Qom, Shiism's Vatican City (he's a cleric first and foremost), not with the Iranian gov't, as far as anyone-- and I mean *anyone*-- knows. You should just keep your mind open a bit more open before taking 2004 articles from the WashTimes to heart. "That is precisely what they want to see happen." Well, you can dream, anyway. Wake me up when the Dems endanger more troops than Rumsfeld did with the lack of Humvee armor... | ||
| JM February 22, 2007 06:28 AM PST >Hmm, doesn't apply Why do Liberals have to be held by the hand in every matter? Sarcasm: 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony. 2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark >Oh, have you read his book? Immaterial. >And do you understand warfare >better than Abizaid? Do you understand counter-insurgency better than Petraeus? >Major General Joseph Taluto >said "99.9 per cent" of those >captured fighting the US were >Iraqis. Did I say Iran would invade? Do you think that invasion is the only way Iran can take over Iraq? Please try not to be so dense. >Your trying to pin him as a pawn >of the gov't of Iran is simple- >minded and unsupported. Except, of course, by those pesky facts. I have to wonder why you are trying so hard to paint Iran as innocent bystanders. >Rumsfeld did with the lack of >Humvee armor Please, keep the Democratic Underground talking points to yourself. HMMWV's were never originally meant to be armored, and many of the troops forced to ride in the slow, overloaded armored versions thanks to Left-wing screeching often have to do so with the doors open for rapid exit. | ||
| Sudsy February 22, 2007 08:45 AM PST "Why do Liberals have to be held by the hand in every matter?" Whatever, man. If you want to explain the brilliant sarcasm of your original remark, I'm listening. Just realize that if you *have* to explain a joke, it probably wasn't very funny to begin with. "Immaterial." Not when you're passing judgement on his grasp of military tactics. "Do you understand counter-insurgency better than Petraeus?" I sure don't. But we've been fighting an insurgency for a few years now and Petraeus can't have that many novel tricks up his sleeve. I wish him and Bush luck, I really do, but they've only got a year to work their magic. "Do you think that invasion is the only way Iran can take over Iraq?" It does come in handy to have more than a handful of people on the ground. Anyway, it's as if you're completely unaware (correct me if I'm wrong) that many of our allies in the Iraqi gov't are buds w/ Iran. Por ejemplo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdel-Aziz_al-Hakim Iran and Iraq are natural allies, in many ways. Most of the parties in the ruling Iraqi gov't coalition are hardline in their religiosity. "Except, of course, by those pesky facts." How are you doing on that search for Iran-Sadr links from reputable sources and between 2004 and 3 weeks ago? I'm waiting. "I have to wonder why you are trying so hard to paint Iran as innocent bystanders." I'm taking issue w/ your facile eliding of Sadr and Iran. Your taking your cues, a la Pavlov's dogs, from Bush, who wants to distract the populace from our failure against the majority-Sunni insurgency in Iraq and perhaps take a crack at Iran so there'll be another major crisis come election time that he'll try to convince us only Republicans can handle-- that's how I see it, anyway. Iran has and will have enough influence in Iraq naturally. I don't think they're angels, but the emphasis on Iran is wildly disproportionate. | ||
| JM February 22, 2007 11:31 AM PST >if you *have* to explain a joke, it >probably wasn't very funny to >begin with But I was not the one being sarcastic or making jokes... oh, never mind. You're obviously just here to be a nuisance. >Not when you're passing >judgement on his grasp of military >tactics. He's a journalist, not a military tactician. Militarily, we never lost an engagement in Vietnam of which I'm aware. perhaps you have other information. >But we've been fighting an >insurgency for a few years now >and Petraeus can't have that >many novel tricks up his sleeve. So you've already decided that Iraq is lost. Well done. >many of our allies in the Iraqi >gov't are buds w/ Iran Being "buds" with Iran is not the problem. Allowing Iran to foment violence is. >Iran and Iraq are natural allies, in >many ways. And natural enemies, in so many others. Perhaps you're unaware of the whole Arab-Persian dynamic. >search for Iran-Sadr links from >reputable sources and between >2004 and 3 weeks ago? How are those arms feeling after trying to move the goalposts? Must be sore. After telling me that Iraq and Iran are "natural allies" along religious lines, you're going to tell me that the Shi'ite hardliners in both countries aren't working together? Please get your memes straight. >Your taking your cues, a la >Pavlov's dogs, from Bush Blah, blah, blah. Go back to Democratic Underground, where that garbage belongs. | ||
| Joe February 22, 2007 12:39 PM PST Thank God that there are still a few conservatives like Congressman Ron Paul left in the Republican Party! | ||
| JM February 22, 2007 03:00 PM PST Ron Paul voted to proclaim publicly that Congress does not believe we can win the fight in Iraq, thus giving aid and comfort to the enemy. He might as well be Hillary Clinton, for all he'll ever get my vote. | ||
| Sudsy February 23, 2007 12:07 AM PST >search for Iran-Sadr links from >reputable sources and between >2004 and 3 weeks ago? STILL waiting... "After telling me that Iraq and Iran are "natural allies" along religious lines, you're going to tell me that the Shi'ite hardliners in both countries aren't working together?" I haven't moved shit. There are Shi'ite hardliners, and there are Shi'ite hardliners. Sadr has been a fierce nationalist, not a pawn of Iran. Hakim is equally at home at the White House and Tehran. The Iranian non-embassy we raided was in the Kurdish north, and the Kurds have always been our best buds in Iraq. So your fixation on Sadr is silly when there are plenty of others with *actual, documented* links to Iran. "So you've already decided that Iraq is lost. Well done." Petraeus may make more of a dent than we've made so far, but he certainly isn't going to vanquish all our enemies there. We're gonna leave sooner or later, when the Iraqi forces stand up, even if we haven't declared victory, so don't get all bent out of shape over my li'l 'ole me thinks. "the whole Arab-Persian dynamic" Yes, I am aware. They have a nasty word for them: safavid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid "oh, never mind" Aww, don't be like that! I told you I'm listening! | ||
| JM February 23, 2007 01:48 AM PST >Sadr has been a fierce nationalist, >not a pawn of Iran. Oh, please. Don't blame me for your lack of attention. The Brits were reporting that al-Sadr was getting assistance from Iran back in 2005: "Last year British troops fought daily gun battles with Shia militiamen loyal to the maverick cleric, Moqtada al-Sadr. This year the number of attacks has dropped, but the attackers appear to have had some highly professional training - almost certainly from militias and elements of the Revolutionary Guard across the border in Iran. "British forces were due to leave Maysan and the neighbouring desert province of al-Mathana early next year, after the general election due to be held in Iraq on 15 December. But they are concerned by recent discoveries of good-quality munitions, including RPGs, land mines, triggering mechanisms and explosives, being brought across the border from Iran. "An articulated lorry recently stopped by Iraqi border police was full of rockets, grenades and launchers. The arms, and training in their use, are believed to have been provided by local militias and units of the Revolutionary Guard across the border, though not necessarily sanctioned by Tehran." http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3067 But you go right ahead pretending al-Sadr is operating on his own, if it helps you sleep at night. | ||
| SallyGirl February 23, 2007 07:18 PM PST Now, now boys... do I need to seperate you?? | ||
| Name February 24, 2007 02:02 AM PST "almost certainly" "believed to have been provided by" "though not necessarily sanctioned by Tehran" Is that honestly the best you could do? All I'm asking of you is to not state as facts what aren't known to be "pesky facts", Jack. I'm neither a Sadrist nor an Iranian-- I just don't accept inflammatory BS. I know qualifying your statements doesn't leave your grand theses looking quite so pretty, but I believe the truth is in all of our best interests. | ||
| JM February 24, 2007 07:03 AM PST Oh, you're looking for CSI: Middle East, where the bad guys are 100% identifiable, their actions are 100% trackable and 100% rock-solid proof helps the good guys wrap everything up neatly before the final commercial. Sorry, that's not how real life works. If you're sure that Mookie's merry men didn't get their training and increased weapons quality from Iran, let's hear your theory. (This ought to be good.) | ||
| Sudsy March 3, 2007 09:55 PM PST OK, Joe, I think I've solved the disparity between our views here. You were saying Sadr had the EFP's, I was saying he didn't. Well, the military briefers' precise comment landed somewhere in between. "The officials said Iran has several surrogate groups in Iraq, including ROGUE ELEMENTS OF the Mehdi Army militia of radical Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr." http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21210401-401,00.html Are we in agreement now? | ||
| JM March 4, 2007 04:49 AM PST I think "somewhere in between" is the best information anyone not on the scene can do at this point. However, if Sadr's Mahdi Army is splitting into factions, that can only be good news for the Iraqis...and us. Meanwhile, US forces are cleaning up Sadr city: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/28/world/middleeast/28iraq.html?ex=1330318800&en=373d082e6584b11a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss and Iraqis say that the crackdown is working: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070227/D8NIB2EO0.html | ||
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